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mike
Which is better at dirt/street? I want a bike that I can TRUST on the biggest jumps, although I will mainly be on the street. I just don't want it braking down on me at the jump park. It has some big jumps!! And do you think the trek ticket would be a better option? What about the STP. So between the ns metropolis, Scott voltage yz 0.2, trek ticket, and STP. I just want to know what these bikes are better at, jump/street. And how big of jumps? Like I said, my jump park have big jumps, and I want a bike I can trust. ALSO, my son (14) is using his diamondback sorrento ( double wall front and rear rims, and all heat treated aluminum frame) to do wheelies. I hate to tell him, by will this brake his bike? Thanks dude!!! I hope you can help me here!!!
Answer
Looking at this Voltage, I'd pick the Diamondback over it, honestly. Aluminum with a yet-slacker head angle and a still-cheaper fork...that could spell bad news. The Circus 20mm fork on the Diamondback is a nice touch, esp at that price level. I ride expensive forks now, so I haven't kept up with RST or X-Fusion, but both of those are low entry level forks (or that's usually spec'd, anyway) and both had horrendous failure rates when they first came into the market. Maybe they've improved them, but without reading people's reviews online, I'm not sure I could recommend RST at all. It's an expensive upgrade, so trying to get the fork you want on a new bike makes much more sense. I don't know anyone with this Scott, but I do know a guy with the Voltage FR full suspension and he's happy with it...totally different bike, of course.
I'm not sure what Trek was after with the Ticket. It's a good bike and it's not a bad deal. Trek is really good about their warranty (they're even good about their jump bikes...can't say that for all companies). It has the usual jump angles but they put long chainstays on it. So-so for jumps, good for trail, but it'll make manuals and rear wheel stuff on street much more difficult. I'm thinking they intended this more for dirt only...jumps and swoopy all-mountain trails. It does have the ISCG guard mount - nice if you want to mount a guide or a good bash setup. Actually, that's a good feature for street riding, but again those long chainstays will be a little frustrating if you're just learning those skills. Finding a good durable bash setup with bmx cranks and gears is hard, so if that's an important consideration then the ISCG mount is the way to go, or else using 4-bolt cranks with the bmx bottom bracket...then you could mount a good thick Raceface bash along with a chainring of your choice. Bashes don't really matter for dirt jumping.
You can tear up a bike on 3' jumps just as well as you can on 12' jumps, so....most of these will handle it ok anyway. Even the bombproof ones sometimes come out with bent handlebars, frame tweaks, or hub/wheel issues if they get abandoned in the air. Cheaper stuff is more likely to fail, of course...but are you likely to get into a situation where you've got 20' of air under you? If not, most are fine. Nose cases and such, that matters more...which is why people like steel frames. Aluminum can make a strong jump frame when they over-engineered, but when it goes, it goes, and you probably won't get a warning beforehand. There's a weight savings (which lessens as you spend more on high end steel frames), but most are willing to forego that for the security and longevity of steel. The NS frame I use most now weighs about 5lb. Most steel frames are around 6 and the cheapest jet up to 8 pounds. These types of aluminum frames will be around 4-1/2 to 5-1/2 pounds, depending.
That Sorrento frame will handle more than you'd think, but the wheels and fork....definitely not for rough play at all. When I first started into this, I beefed up a cheap Trek bare bones aluminum xc hardtail. I'm glad it didn't break, because I didn't know then what I know now. It saw way more impact and abuse than it ever should have...I lucked out with an ovalized head tube and a few dents before moving up to a proper frame. Even with better wheels on the Sorrento, I'd still make sure your son understands its limitations & the costs of failure (both in dollars and blood loss....). There are good videos on youtube that show kids nose casing cheaper xc bikes from smallish dirt jumps...with the resulting "crack!" sound and two pieces of bike frame and a lot of wailing. Might do him well to view one of those videos. lol. For that bike, just keep it small and keep it occasional, but wheelies and knocking around are just fine.
For street-specific, the geo steepens a bit (twitchy = more nimble, esp for front wheel maneuvers) and the bb height might rise (good for trials moves/rear wheel balance, and extra clearance)...and again, short chainstays. Those same short chainstays are not as good for the trails - they compromise several aspects of trail geometry, esp for those that don't have good handling skills in corners and loose soil. These details matter, but within the same category of bicycle it gets to be splitting hairs somewhat, and everyone has their preferences/abilities, too.
And you're welcome! I don't mind helping and typing, especially since I know that not many people really know this kind of riding and the bikes, and it's a whole different world in many ways. I was lucky that I had some great riders help me learn...and still I got hurt a few times anyway. lol
Looking at this Voltage, I'd pick the Diamondback over it, honestly. Aluminum with a yet-slacker head angle and a still-cheaper fork...that could spell bad news. The Circus 20mm fork on the Diamondback is a nice touch, esp at that price level. I ride expensive forks now, so I haven't kept up with RST or X-Fusion, but both of those are low entry level forks (or that's usually spec'd, anyway) and both had horrendous failure rates when they first came into the market. Maybe they've improved them, but without reading people's reviews online, I'm not sure I could recommend RST at all. It's an expensive upgrade, so trying to get the fork you want on a new bike makes much more sense. I don't know anyone with this Scott, but I do know a guy with the Voltage FR full suspension and he's happy with it...totally different bike, of course.
I'm not sure what Trek was after with the Ticket. It's a good bike and it's not a bad deal. Trek is really good about their warranty (they're even good about their jump bikes...can't say that for all companies). It has the usual jump angles but they put long chainstays on it. So-so for jumps, good for trail, but it'll make manuals and rear wheel stuff on street much more difficult. I'm thinking they intended this more for dirt only...jumps and swoopy all-mountain trails. It does have the ISCG guard mount - nice if you want to mount a guide or a good bash setup. Actually, that's a good feature for street riding, but again those long chainstays will be a little frustrating if you're just learning those skills. Finding a good durable bash setup with bmx cranks and gears is hard, so if that's an important consideration then the ISCG mount is the way to go, or else using 4-bolt cranks with the bmx bottom bracket...then you could mount a good thick Raceface bash along with a chainring of your choice. Bashes don't really matter for dirt jumping.
You can tear up a bike on 3' jumps just as well as you can on 12' jumps, so....most of these will handle it ok anyway. Even the bombproof ones sometimes come out with bent handlebars, frame tweaks, or hub/wheel issues if they get abandoned in the air. Cheaper stuff is more likely to fail, of course...but are you likely to get into a situation where you've got 20' of air under you? If not, most are fine. Nose cases and such, that matters more...which is why people like steel frames. Aluminum can make a strong jump frame when they over-engineered, but when it goes, it goes, and you probably won't get a warning beforehand. There's a weight savings (which lessens as you spend more on high end steel frames), but most are willing to forego that for the security and longevity of steel. The NS frame I use most now weighs about 5lb. Most steel frames are around 6 and the cheapest jet up to 8 pounds. These types of aluminum frames will be around 4-1/2 to 5-1/2 pounds, depending.
That Sorrento frame will handle more than you'd think, but the wheels and fork....definitely not for rough play at all. When I first started into this, I beefed up a cheap Trek bare bones aluminum xc hardtail. I'm glad it didn't break, because I didn't know then what I know now. It saw way more impact and abuse than it ever should have...I lucked out with an ovalized head tube and a few dents before moving up to a proper frame. Even with better wheels on the Sorrento, I'd still make sure your son understands its limitations & the costs of failure (both in dollars and blood loss....). There are good videos on youtube that show kids nose casing cheaper xc bikes from smallish dirt jumps...with the resulting "crack!" sound and two pieces of bike frame and a lot of wailing. Might do him well to view one of those videos. lol. For that bike, just keep it small and keep it occasional, but wheelies and knocking around are just fine.
For street-specific, the geo steepens a bit (twitchy = more nimble, esp for front wheel maneuvers) and the bb height might rise (good for trials moves/rear wheel balance, and extra clearance)...and again, short chainstays. Those same short chainstays are not as good for the trails - they compromise several aspects of trail geometry, esp for those that don't have good handling skills in corners and loose soil. These details matter, but within the same category of bicycle it gets to be splitting hairs somewhat, and everyone has their preferences/abilities, too.
And you're welcome! I don't mind helping and typing, especially since I know that not many people really know this kind of riding and the bikes, and it's a whole different world in many ways. I was lucky that I had some great riders help me learn...and still I got hurt a few times anyway. lol
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